( Hypothetical ) Returnees ???

[Ray]

Hi all ,
it's been a while...and many serious things changed , or : continue to change ;
today , on a rainy cool Sunday in Capital of EU , I ask myself this :
- if the finances or a serious illness were not a factor ,
how many of us , currently living all over abroad ,
would look forward to returning to Western Cape ,
earliest , or upon retirement age ?
Moderator , could this be worth a poll ?
Cheers !

[TheDuck]

Ray to me crime still plays a serious role in any thoughts of returning to SA and then with the dropping standards in every area it makes the choice a NO for me.

I am only starting my family now, our eldest is 8 ..

SA is certainly not a calling card for myself

quack

:woof:

[ForumAdmin]

Ray .. how would you like us to formulate the Poll

what choices?

:good:

Thanks

ForumAdmin

[Joan]

Ray to me crime still plays a serious role in any thoughts of returning to SA and then with the dropping standards in every area it makes the choice a NO for me.

I am only starting my family now, our eldest is 8 ..

SA is certainly not a calling card for myself

quack

:woof:

I think the Western Cape is the safest of all the provinces ( exluding Cape Town , Langa, etc .......... there are more than those places in the Western Cape...)

Duck, in the UK the standard of education is shocking, the Daily Mail posted only last week how few 5 year old boys could write their own names.

I find the use of grammar and spelling quite shocking here.......same with plain calculations.


May be very different in Belgium.

[Britbok]

If hubby was assured of a well paying job and of course if I was as well, we would return tomorrow. However we have no children so only have ourselves to worrty about.

[mcamp999]

Ray
As you are no doubt aware, I would move back tommorrow if the finances were in place. The crime situation is hyped up in my opinion and I visit there every year. (Yes, the crime is real and it is bad in certain areas, but that is just my point, it is in certain areas mostly). As Joan has said, you can go live in many places in the Western Cape where you would have a good quality of life.

[Ray]

Nice !
I was expecting more of a reaction , though - there appear to be still so many foreign retirees : Germans , Brits , Dutch , Belgians , even ( incredibly ) some French , all living around those areas - some full-time , some on half-yearly basis...occassionally , I get to meet a few of them and they never stop raving about the beauty , the golf , the wine estates , domestic help , cheapo fuel , restaurants , Woolies and what have you ... then again , they are retired , with ample funds and a good passport , so , if/when the things may so dictate , the next plane out should be : No Problem
( well , that's the theory anycase , as personally I can't imagine anything worse than being wasted in the horrible airports and flying sardine cans , at that kinda high age of my life...)

[Hagar]

Hi Ray

I would love to think that one day when I go on pension that Cape Town will be on my list of options. But that is at least 15 years or so away and will have to wait and see what CT / SA has to offer then. At the moment I am leaning towards the pessimistic though.

I returned to SA a few months ago after NOT having been home for three years. Prior to this trip I used to return at least once a year (one year three times) since leaving. This left me very excited and very anxious at the same time, not knowing how different everything was going to be.

Three months or three years away, it is the same rollercoaster ride of what if, excitement, joy, wondering what on earth I am doing living on the other side of world, frustration, anger, realizing I have changed and used to a different way of daily life, to not being able to get back to the airport and home fast enough.

What is home? When I am in Germany I am going home, and when in SA I am going home to Germany? Africa is in our blood and always will be that we all know, and is our dilemma. Is home not with our family / loved ones, where we earn a living, have roof over our head, and put food on the table?

My first five days were briefly in Joey’s (New Johannesburg Int. Airport FANTASTIC) and then Durban. Impressed by everything, especially seeing my buddies, sleeping in shorts on top of my bed in winter in Durban, the cheap food and South African friendliness across the board. Not to mention all the pre WC 2010 development and hype, the Gauteng Train pylons sprouting out the ground everywhere, the new stadiums, the highways and city access roads being upgraded. Out of this World !!!

New Green Point Common / Cape Town stadium my personal highlight. Did the visitors tour, and sat there with tears in my eyes as some dynamic actor presented the last 400 history of Cape Town and the Green Point common, with dance, song, mime and acting. Through cultures, wars, its history and what it meant to sport, then the presentation of the planning and future of this magnificent stadium as an attraction and symbol of pride for ALL Capetonians and South Africans. Not to mention the show piece for the world to visit and see. In the waiting area is great display of Soccer Team pictures from many of the old CT soccer clubs and teams. Here I saw a Campbell in a Tramways Team picture from early 1900’s. Is this a relative Mcamp?

Back to the point. Then the 6 days of holiday ended and the work began. This trip I was alone, as this was mainly to sort out my storage unit and many administrative issues. As I basically left SA with a backpack 10 years ago, to see what if anything, the world out there had to offer.

Very briefly as my uphill climb, frustration and de-motivation started:

First trying to get a sim card for my SA cell phone and to get it connected. Keeping in mind that I paid a monthly rental (expensive) for ten years, this in order to keep my number active and the convenience that all business partners and friends always have it on hand. I also did a yearly bank transfer, and had my account paid up for a year in advance (April to April).It is now May and I may not purchase a sim card, as the account for that month of May that arrive is not yet paid. No problem let me pay for it and for the sim at the same time. No Sir you can only by the sim here at MTN, you must pay your account at ABSA or Computicket. Take note, I have already told the salesman I have NO papers/account with me. Banks are closed but CompT is still open in Checkers. I have already walked my butt off in this massive shopping centre in Joeys trying to find the MTN shop, and Checkers is at the furthest point on the other side of the mall. I get there and want to pay my account, so that I can buy the sim card and have it activated. Sir do you have your “quick pay number”, no I only have my cell phone number (which is all one needs when paying at the bank). Could not pay there, why did the salesman in the shop not give my “quick pay number” when he sent me to a CompT knowing that I would need it, and after me telling him I had no papers / account with me? I was ready to kill and drive straight back to the Airport.

After Durban the first thing in CT was to get my Cell connected, as many folks were trying to get hold me, and sending me sms to my Germany Cell or E-mails, asking why I am not answering my SA Cell.

I go straight to Bank and pay the open account, and head back to MTN to now buy by sim card and get it activated. No sir it must first show on your account, which should be tomorrow. Back into MTN the next day, and they call the MTN centre who want to do a security check before they give the go ahead to buy and activate a sim card. After introducing myself as Mr. Z to the lady at the other end, I get asked the basic, address, birthday, and then “your maiden name”. From being very polite, I now become very sarcastic about how a Mr.Z can have a maiden name. I then get told that I have failed the security check and have to reset up new security check questions. Well right then and there, I EXPLODED became very rude, and cancelled my 15 plus year contract with immediate effect (in writing). So much for being a loyal MTN and advance paying customer for years.

Next my arrival in Cape Town Airport and nobody at the Car Hire has any knowledge of my car, even though I have a booking and confirmation number. I eventually get a car, and now need a special map to get out of the maze of car hire companies and building site diversions. Never in a million years would I have thought of needing a map to get out of CT airport LOL.

In SA there is now a law that no Policies etc. may be paid until you can produce a certificate from SARS (South African Revenue Service) that you owe them no money. My broker asked me to get one, as not being sure when my next SA visit would be, and it would be advisable to have one on my file.
Easy !!! Ja right, trying to find the new buildings they are in at Lower Long St. Then a Q to make sure you get a colour sticker on your ID book, to make you stand in the right Q. Go around the corner to allocated area, and it is Q-ing by musical chairs. 50 Chairs later and I am told that I am in the wrong Q, you must go to the one around the corner. 100 Musical chairs and 2 and half hours later to get a print out stating that I do not owe SARS any money. I was very calm, and just laughed my way through this one. Half a day lost for one printout, how I longed for German efficiency.

My next mission was trying to tie up my late Moms affairs, which entailed closing a Bank account and stopping a pension policy. Not as easy and straight forward as I thought. I had a copy of her Last Will and Testament showing me as being executor of the estate and her death certificate. First step is a letter of executorships from Master of the Court, and again sent from pillar to post, as her death certificate is from the UK, and not SA. Between the Bank, Old Mutal and Master of the Courts, and over 70 pages of documentation and copies of papers etc, I had to bring that all back with me. I and four brothers will now attempt to settle this matter via post and fax from Germany, UK and Oz.

My biggest nightmare, as this has been going on for years as the goal posts and paper trail requirements keep changing. Attempting the conversion of my old SA gun licenses to the new ones, required by new SA law and to enable me to import them to Germany, and I refuse over my dead body to hand them over the police. Well after four attempts to hand in paper work etc, I was charged and finger printed with all the other criminals from the night before arrests. This being as my SA passport expired, and as the application is in process and will take at least 6 months. I am now travelling on a temporary SA passport (being the good law abiding citizen I am). I could have travelled on my EU passport and none would have been the wiser. But now because I could not prove when I left and returned to SA, as I did NOT have my old SA passport with me. Hence I was charged, but thank heavens that has since been thrown out of court and I have no criminal record (this since being back in Germany).

And the stories of hurry and wait, African time and incompetence went on, taking me up to Oudsthoorn military base, Graveyards in Stellenbosch, collecting bank cards in Somerset West, electricity black out in Hermanus, etc.

Compliments to the freight company that collected and sent my 1,7 m2 that was all that was left of my 20 m2 from my storage unit, after I had sorted it out. Compliments to the forth guy I saw at the Master of the courts, who did everything in his power calling and walking around to make sure I had all the right forms.

So Ray, these positives and negatives, make my rollercoaster ride of confusion, love, frustration, joy, anger and pride of whether I would ever return? I have no straight answer, I don’t know. The only guarantee of my return is when I Die, as my wish in my will, is that my ashes are returned and let free in wind off Table Mountain or out at sea from Hout Bay with a Piper playing his bag pipes.

Cheers Hagar the Horrible. :2cents:

PS: Ray when are you coming down my way? I am in Edinburgh from 17th to 21st for Tattoo.

[Ray]

Jawellnofine , sarge !
Thanks for the detailed update , which I'm sure will be greatly appreciated by many here .
Granted , the retirees , once settled , might be in somewhat easier situation , than your recent experiences indicate .
Then again , someone else tells me that there has been another 37% increase in doctors leaving S.A. , can't be that good then , hey ?
And the economics , post 2010 euphoria , don't look too good ; seems S.A. is only starting to learn about the world recession , which , for the time being is being alleviated there , by all the frenzy of getting up to speed for the World Cup ...but : after that ?

[Hagar]

Hi Ray, yes the question about what is going to happen to the SA economy after WC 2010 is out there. It could be their lifeline to surviving the present crisis or bubble is going burst.