IS circumcision of a new born a form of child abuse?

[picanin]

Egnat I have never ever had problems with the fact that I am circumcised. If anything, the only problems are caused by those amongst the PC brigade who make a big song and dance about it. It is a personal decision. There are many grounds for having it done.

Anyone who thinks that being circumcised causes a man "mental anguish" needs their heads read!

[libra]

That's the thing picanin, it is not the mental anguish that was harped on before in my previous topic posting, it was the fact that men that are circumcised 'apparently' experience less sexual stimulation because of scar tissue (not that I took my son's sex life in consideration when he was newborn - it didn't even cross my mind......)

[picanin]

Originally posted by egnat
That's the thing picanin, it is not the mental anguish that was harped on before in my previous topic posting, it was the fact that men that are circumcised 'apparently' experience less sexual stimulation because of scar tissue (not that I took my son's sex life in consideration when he was newborn - it didn't even cross my mind......)

Egnat, if anything then it can only be a boon to the trigger happy type of guys! However, speaking from experience I honestly dont think it makes a lot of difference. The foreskin does not determine the ability to have an orgasm. Nor does it determine the intensity thereof.

[Mgv]

Originally posted by Joan
Perhaps one should also look beyond the little boys.......Jewish women have a lower incidence of cervical and other "female" related cancers than have other women ......

It is not only done for religious purposes and has nothing to do with the reasons given by MgV

The reason there is less female problems with jewish women probably has more to their abstenance from sex during their period, and better hygiene in that area, due to their religious norms (specials baths, etc).

(I still fail to see how, even IF this is related to an adult males circumcised penis, that this is in anyway justifies the cruel and non-consentual practise of infantile circumcision? Surely this is a decision better made by an adult male in regards to his own body?)

The reasons I stated above ARE real, I have done extensive, objective reading up on the subject over the years, and I feel the health "issues" are the desperate graspings of a medical fraternity to arrogant to admit past errors. imho. No offence intended to the pharmaceutical fraternity.

BTW Toktokkie, I was an adult male before I realised my penis was any different to my dad's (he is circumcised, I am not), so the "to be the same as his dad" argument is just for the adult's sentimental reasons, and not for the kids peace of mind. Once again, IMO

[Mgv]

Originally posted by picanin
Egnat I have never ever had problems with the fact that I am circumcised. If anything, the only problems are caused by those amongst the PC brigade who make a big song and dance about it. It is a personal decision. There are many grounds for having it done.

Anyone who thinks that being circumcised causes a man "mental anguish" needs their heads read!

Pic, adult males who have been circumcised after they have been sexually active do report a loss of sensation, and loss of enjoyment of sex.

[picanin]

Mgv, now you appear to be contradicting medical proof with what is basically an old wives tale - that sex during a womens period is bad. Secondly that Jewish women are any cleaner than non Jewish women. If thats what you think then in both cases you are sadly mistaken. Maybe 500 years ago but certainly not today. There has been a fair amount of research - not just a single doctor giving personal pronouncements - that have shown that there is an increase in the likelihood of a women getting cervical cancer if she either starts sex at a very very young age or if her partner/s are uncircumcised. Research has pointed to a link between smegma secreted from under the foreskin and cervical cancer.

What does amaze me is the almost Nazi-ish manner in which the anti brigade seem to put there point across. It does make me wonder how many of them have daughters and practice that other "barbaric" rite of piercing baby girls ears. And that purely for cosmetic reasons. Tut! Tut! How disgusting! But hey, who am I to talk! Not only am I clean cut BUT I also had my kids ears pierced as a baby! What a recipe for eternal damnation! Fire and Brimstone ehre I come!

[picanin]

Originally posted by Mgv
Pic, adult males who have been circumcised after they have been sexually active do report a loss of sensation, and loss of enjoyment of sex.

Mgv, funny but you also get to hear the opposite from adults who ahve been done. They often report that because Mr Happys head is now in complete contact with any surface it touches that sensitivity is increased. Look if I suddenly woke up tomorrow morning and discovered a new bit of vel covering my oldest best friends head, I too would more likely than not report different sensations. :p

[Pampered]

"What does amaze me is the almost Nazi-ish manner in which the anti brigade seem to put there point across."

Well said, Pic

[Mgv]

Originally posted by picanin
Mgv, funny but you also get to hear the opposite from adults who ahve been done. They often report that because Mr Happys head is now in complete contact with any surface it touches that sensitivity is increased. Look if I suddenly woke up tomorrow morning and discovered a new bit of vel covering my oldest best friends head, I too would more likely than not report different sensations. :p

I'll say this slowly, ok...

If the foreskin cannot retract - a circumcision is not only a necessity for health reasons, but it will also improve sensation.

If the foreskin already fully retracts, and is removed for cosmetic, cancer, injury or other reasons, THEN it is unanimous that the circumcised penis feels less sensatuion than previously.

If you want to be circumcised - it is YOUR choice. Do not make the erroneous decision on behalf of your kids - they can make the fully informed decision them selves as adults.

[sue w]

Mgv although I am with you as part of the "anti brigade" I take major offence at the implication that I am any less hygienic than a Jewish woman or any other woman.

Joan that is a very interesting find about the cervical cancer. Is it definitely connected to sleeping with circumsized men as as you said cervical cancer is more common in woman who start at an early age or have many partners or the HP virus. If so is this also true for Muslim women.?

Oh and Pic I have a son who I never circumsized and 2 daughters who have nothing pierced. Pierced ears on baby girls is just as stupid and meaningless as circumsisions on baby boys :p

Like I said before, I will never do anything to my childrens bodies (unless medical) until they are old enough to make that decision themselves.