IS circumcision of a new born a form of child abuse?

[Venus]

I'm very anti circumcision unless there is a good medical reason for it to be done. I researched it quite thoroughly before having my son & could find no evidence that made me willing to have it done to my son. G.o.d. created man with a foreskin, which in my mind says that it must have a purpose. My son's body is his body & it's up to him what permanent "choppings & modifications" he may want done.

[eteechah]

WRT the female cancer question - I think you'll find the original report from the Cancer Research UK did not lay the blame on circumcised/uncircumcised, but rather having many sexual partners (uncircumcised having the higher level) - the results for a single partner showed little difference in cancer levels, regardless of the state of the todger in question.

I don't see, however, how the question of adult illness/enjoyment affects the original question regarding the procedure performed on infants. Many black tribes only perform the operation at the age of 13 - thus allowing the best of both worlds - the protection it provides and needs in infancy, and the "healthly" sex as an adult. (if only they could perform the operation in a more clinical sterile manner....)

But we seemd to have descended into a "I have no problem with mine although I have only a subjective opinion, with no comparison upon which to base it" and the incorrect usage of statistics, or indeed mere made up stats to "support" our observations of our various performances in bed - when this completely ignores the issue in debate. We do NOT care about your evaluation of your todgers as adults - stick to the childhood question.

Yet we couch our insults with maybe's and possibly's and almosts, when they are specifically targetted to insult each other. Is it so difficult to debate correctly without resorting to a spanish inquisition mentality when someone disagrees with us?

This is a new site, lets play nicely. I you cannot control your temper when someone disagess with you, or if someone else manufactures "stats" to support their dubious answers, then avoid debates - and stick to the banter. Don't get personal or insulting - it is chlidish and unecessary.

And I point this at both sides of this debate, not at any individuals or factions. So any offence I may have caused, I apologise for in advance.

[Icecub]

Originally posted by Oi!gen
You make a very valid point, eteechah. But I don't think anyone here has been trying to insult others. I'm sure we're all adults who agree to differ.

With regards to how everything said relates to infant circumcision - I think the point being made is quite clear: unless there is a definite medical reason, circumcision should not be carried out on infants so that adult males can make an informed decision for themselves. That's why so much emphasis has been put on personal, subjective preference. I'm sure most men see it this way. No insult to anyone intended.

no offence intended..but what man would go thru with it now...for the pain...hardly....?? and also i have not yet met a man who has/has not been circumsized and unhappy with it....

[Jemlet]

Originally posted by eteechah
WRT the female cancer question - I think you'll find the original report from the Cancer Research UK did not lay the blame on circumcised/uncircumcised, but rather having many sexual partners (uncircumcised having the higher level) - the results for a single partner showed little difference in cancer levels, regardless of the state of the todger in question.

Thanks for confirming what I remembered reading

[Toktokkie]

Originally posted by Icecub
no offence intended..but what man would go thru with it now...for the pain...hardly....?? and also i have not yet met a man who has/has not been circumsized and unhappy with it....

You state exactly what my son said. I asked him if he thought we should have waited and let the choice be his. He said when a man at the doctors office was told to undress for an examination, the doctor was likely to come back and find that he'd only removed his tie! That the chances of a mature man electing to have a knife near his family jewels was highly unlikely.
If he had a son one day, he planned to circumsize him - without a doubt.
To each his own hey.

[Piglet]

Fortunitely having girls ( and expecting a third) this decision I have escaped . I don't however believe boy infant circumcision carried out in safe and hygienic conditions is child abuse. But if I were to make the decision I don't know where I stand. My husband was circumcised at birth and would want his son to be circumcised. My brother was never circumcised at birth . And this caused him ' anguish' until he plucked up the courage to have it done is late twenties. He said it was extremely painful (especially in the mornings) and he wished our mother had circumcised him.

To digressed a tad bit. Someone mentioned tribal circumcision earlier on . Highlighting if it needs to be done it should be done at an age that the boy has a choice. Not wanting to debate the right of cultural circumcision , there is little choice in tribal circumcision. If a boy is not circumcised he will never be seen as a man in the tribes eyes. I have had experience while working in a general hospital in the eastren cape. (The Xhosa culture practice circumcision religiously.) With the end product of the bush surgeon's botch ups. Not at all nice from death by septaemia to complete amputation due to ganrene. Yet to deny circumcision also brings anguish . I have also experienced Xhosa men that have come into to hospital to be circumcised as their mother had failed to let him undergo the 'right of passage into manhood' due to fears of dangers.

At the end of the day if it is cultural and religious the choice is a little simpliar. If it is a choice made with no strong religious and cultural ties it becames that more difficult. Thank goodness I don't need to decide.

[sunny]

Originally posted by MzInterpret
Was his name Cletus?

Very funny LOL ..... Miss Applebutt strikes again

[Joan]

Originally posted by sue w
Mgv although I am with you as part of the "anti brigade" I take major offence at the implication that I am any less hygienic than a Jewish woman or any other woman.

Joan that is a very interesting find about the cervical cancer. Is it definitely connected to sleeping with circumsized men as as you said cervical cancer is more common in woman who start at an early age or have many partners or the HP virus. If so is this also true for Muslim women.?

Oh and Pic I have a son who I never circumsized and 2 daughters who have nothing pierced. Pierced ears on baby girls is just as stupid and meaningless as circumsisions on baby boys :p

Like I said before, I will never do anything to my childrens bodies (unless medical) until they are old enough to make that decision themselves.

Sorry to reply so late, have not been active on the internet lately. I must eat humble pie here, seemingly the earlier studies have been disproven and that my facts were indeed not correct. I do apologise for giving incorrect information.

[Joan]

http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/cancer/

[squeaky]

i'm curcimsised. i'm fine with it. i dont remember the pain, just like i dont remember the pain from teething.

so i wouldnt say its a form of child abuse.